solve problems - create cool stuff - teach open source at not sure anymore... me?; Student at life. the best school there is
Bremerton WA
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▼Official Google Blog: An update on Google.org and philanthropy @ Google
I did not even know Google.org existed. Well, I do now. This is awesome, especially the Google PowerMeter, Flu Trends and the Earth Engine. I have a new favorite site to get info on non-profit organizational tools... [just what refiamerica needs ;-]
Official Google Blog: An update on Google.org and philanthropy @ Google
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Like▼PostPartisan - How Obama can shift the health-care debate
A buzz friend posted this to facebook. I decided to read it because I try to follow healthcare happenings. I read the entire article because what David Ignatous had to say. His point? Do it. Not because it will save money and cut premiums [we could only hope!] but because it is the right thing to do. Hat/tip to Alice for posting this link.
Steven Williams - I like Ignatius' point about moral suasion:
"Here’s what I want Obama to say: A just society assures its citizens’ basic needs. It protects their 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,' irrespective of the circumstances they were born into. Citizenship in a great country should not be a DNA lottery, or a case of survival of the richest. A nation has a moral obligation to care for its people, and if it fails to do so, it is a lesser country."
Recent Democrats tend to be good policy wonks and seem averse in wrapping themselves in the icons of the nation: the flag, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. Those icons - for better or worse - form the bone structure around which any good game changing public policy hangs its flesh. All transformative public policy does that: Lyndon Johnson knew that when he framed his civil rights legislation in such a way that even the Republicans knew they couldn't stand in way having Everett Dirksen as co-author of the bill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_Dirksen ).Mar 9
"Here’s what I want Obama to say: A just society assures its citizens’ basic needs. It protects their 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,' irrespective of the circumstances they were born into. Citizenship in a great country should not be a DNA lottery, or a case of survival of the richest. A nation has a moral obligation to care for its people, and if it fails to do so, it is a lesser country."
Recent Democrats tend to be good policy wonks and seem averse in wrapping themselves in the icons of the nation: the flag, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. Those icons - for better or worse - form the bone structure around which any good game changing public policy hangs its flesh. All transformative public policy does that: Lyndon Johnson knew that when he framed his civil rights legislation in such a way that even the Republicans knew they couldn't stand in way having Everett Dirksen as co-author of the bill (http://en.wikipedia
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Like▼Marvell’s New Armada Might Bring Both HD And Gaming On Netbooks, Bye Bye Atom? | NetBook Expert
Marvell’s New Armada Might Bring Both HD And Gaming On Netbooks, Bye Bye Atom? | NetBook Expert I have been using the Marvell Sheevaplug plug computer ans wished it had a graphics head on it. This...Expand this post »
Marvell’s New Armada Might Bring Both HD And Gaming On Netbooks, Bye Bye Atom? | NetBook Expert I have been using the Marvell Sheevaplug plug computer ans wished it had a graphics head on it. This...Expand this post »
Ron Wetzel - Too bad the RAM limitations make this not quite there for what I have in mind. Would be great to create a massively distributed nIDS out of these for all of sites at Technicolor... super low power, micro footprint... the video is great and DLNA! Thanks Steve!8:14 am
Steve Pirk - Ron: Yeah, it is all about watts... Look at the early adopters of the Bloom Energy Server - bloomenergy.com; EBay, Google, Amazon - all the big cloud providers. Lots of servers. The SheevaPlug - openplug.org is an awesome device to do your dev/prod work on. $99, Linux installed, and draws about 3 watts. Will be my main home server again once I update the OS to Debian 9.1 [I have a 1st gen unit that came with Debian 8.04 pre-installed] or take a fresh look at Slackware - armedslack.org.
I love hearing public radio programs that are produced "off the grid". At three watts, this makes a great streaming server [audio/video...]. These little guys will also tie well into Google PowerMeter - http://goo.gl/2J7I. Linux has all the LM sensor libraries built in, and access to all the monitoring software that is being written in the open source community.
It is getting pretty cool to be a tinkerer again...2:15 pm
I love hearing public radio programs that are produced "off the grid". At three watts, this makes a great streaming server [audio/video...]. These little guys will also tie well into Google PowerMeter - http://goo.gl/2J7I. Linux has all the LM sensor libraries built in, and access to all the monitoring software that is being written in the open source community.
It is getting pretty cool to be a tinkerer again...2:15 pm
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Like▼Heart of America Northwest - Hanford turning into a nuclear dump?
Shout out to all Seattle/PacNW residents: Hearings on Hanford as a National Radioactive Waste Dump: A public meeting in Seattle Monday 3/8 7pm. Info session starts at 6pm. Feds want to abandon the...Expand this post »
Shout out to all Seattle/PacNW residents: Hearings on Hanford as a National Radioactive Waste Dump: A public meeting in Seattle Monday 3/8 7pm. Info session starts at 6pm. Feds want to abandon the...Expand this post »
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Like▼Corrine L. McDermid - An avatar album -- that's one of those really good ideas I feel kinda dumb for not thinking of. Now I can kick my random thumbnail identities off my desktop and into an external drive.Mar 7
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Steve Pirk - Yeah, it was something I learned when setting up my profile. You can change your image on your profile page by picking a picasaweb image, and it updates all sites that reference the image. These were the only recent head shots I could find - from Sis's wedding.Mar 7
Bailey Bootthanoo - You look like that guy from some movie I saw recently.Mar 7
Ryan Jones - There you are! Nice shades, movie star looks for sure.Mar 7
Steve Pirk - Yeah, a little fuzz on the face now 'cause of winter. Should do a pic of that too, before I shave it off for spring... When chubbier people said I looked like Tom Arnold. I can deal with that, he rocked in "True Lives". Dunno who I look like now. An egrep maybe?Mar 7
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Like▼I have a landline, This is way too cool... ty Curtis!
If I Had a Landline, I Would Use This Android Phone [Phone] - Gizmodo
Once upon a time, there were these cables that got into your home and into these things that went ring-ring, with numbers and redial buttons and call waiting. The DSP Multimedia Handset is the same, with Android and a touchscreen. It's also looks like the last twist to landline-based DECT handsets. In addition to Wi-Fi, this phone uses the Android operating system, meaning that you would be ab...Expand this post »
If I Had a Landline, I Would Use This Android Phone [Phone] - Gizmodo
Once upon a time, there were these cables that got into your home and into these things that went ring-ring, with numbers and redial buttons and call waiting. The DSP Multimedia Handset is the same, with Android and a touchscreen. It's also looks like the last twist to landline-based DECT handsets. In addition to Wi-Fi, this phone uses the Android operating system, meaning that you would be ab...Expand this post »
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Like▼These guys did the music for the documovie "All my friends are funeral singers". Awesome group, awesome music.
These guys played the entire soundtrack live during a screening of the movie over in Seattle earlier this year. Totally bummed I could not make it. --egrep
DOWNLOAD: Califone - Funeral Singers + Ape-like - RCRD LBL
Califone is a band that makes makes fun, folksy, Chicagoan post-rock. Califone is a band that makes a film that looks all screwy and artsy and hilarious and ends up being kind of a big deal at Sundance. Califone is a band that celebrates this by touring with Wilco. All My Friends Are Funeral Singers is out through Dead Oceans now and below we have two mpfrees showcasing why we're into these guy...Expand this post »
These guys played the entire soundtrack live during a screening of the movie over in Seattle earlier this year. Totally bummed I could not make it. --egrep
DOWNLOAD: Califone - Funeral Singers + Ape-like - RCRD LBL
Califone is a band that makes makes fun, folksy, Chicagoan post-rock. Califone is a band that makes a film that looks all screwy and artsy and hilarious and ends up being kind of a big deal at Sundance. Califone is a band that celebrates this by touring with Wilco. All My Friends Are Funeral Singers is out through Dead Oceans now and below we have two mpfrees showcasing why we're into these guy...Expand this post »
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Like▼Lightspeed Champion - Marlene - KEXP Song of the Day
Lightspeed Champion - "Marlene" from the 2010 album Life is Sweet! Nice To Meet You on Domino.Expand this post »
Lightspeed Champion - "Marlene" from the 2010 album Life is Sweet! Nice To Meet You on Domino.Expand this post »
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Like▼Official Google Blog: Over 4,000 developers at Google I/O 2010
/egrep is doin' a little jig around the front porch... I got my confirmation last week... Whoot! Anyone know some good couch surfer sites near Moscone West? Going to be out of money by the time I hit SF... ;-]
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Like▼Bob Cesca: The Tea Party Is All About Race
Bob really struck a note with me on this one. For the longest time, I have been at a loss to explain "why" the current "tea party or tea baggers" bothered me so much. They appear to be for things that would be good for America, but once you look into it, you are like "that's just wrong...!". I think Bob really has something here... hat/tip -> Bob Cesca.
Bob Cesca: The Tea Party Is All About Race
Robert Gordon - I totally agree, no one has been saying it out loud, but they are obviously racists, and like all racists they always seem to be the worst examples of a race - in this case, out of shape, overweight, white people. I'll tell you what bug me more about them though- when you hear them screaming about "socialized medicine" or "government takeover of healthcare" take note of their likely age. Many of them are of Medicare age, meaning they have government supported health care- they are hypocrites.Mar 4
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Robert Lee - @Steve Pirk - What point does Bob Cesca raise that is so profound with you?Mar 4
Dan Ballagh - Sorry but I disagree, the Tea Party has nothing to do with race. They are simply an open organization that stands for the constitution and less government spending. I don't see them any differently from any other open group, just like open source. I'm sure there are racist Linux guys out there but that doesn't make every Linux guy a racist.Mar 4
Robert Lee - I agree with Dan Ballagh. What part of fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government, and free markets screams of racism? Help me out please. I believe in these central tenets listed and would hate to be called a racist for doing so.Mar 4
Stuyvesant Parker - The racist part of the Tea Party movement is that none of these people cared about these things until it was a black man who was doing them. When George W. Bush was in power they didn't care. Now that he's not, they care. When you point out to them that Bush did much worse than anything Obama has done so far, they stutter and haw and say it ain't so. Facts don't matter to these people.Mar 4
Robert Lee - @Stuyvesant - The article specifically mentions Rush Limbaugh. So, are you saying that Rush didn't care about these things prior to Obama taking office? That is an absurd statement. I'm using Rush as an example, nothing more. People cared about the growth of government all along. It is absolutely foolish and imbecilic to suggest otherwise.Mar 4
Dan Ballagh - I'll admit that I didn't pay too much attention either until the government bailouts started but they were wrong when George Bush did it and they are wrong now. Now that I'm paying attention to all the government spending I am very concerned and it has nothing to do with political parties or race.Mar 4
Stuyvesant Parker - Rush Limbaugh certainly wasn't ranting about out of control government spending when Bush was doing it. Has nothing to do with the issues at hand. The question remains: where was the tea party then? Why isn't the tea party celebrating Obama's tax cuts and attempts to get the banks to repay Bush's bailouts? The article is pointing out quite clearly that if the Tea Party was motivated purely by facts and policy, then their tune would be a little different. Bush was the biggest violator of the Constitution that we've ever had in power... where were the "Constitutionalists" then?Mar 4
Robert Lee - First, Libertarians, who support the Tea Party movement by and large, have been ranting about the growth of government for decades. I am confused as to why both you and Bob Cesca keep insisting that this is a recent movement. The term 'Tea Party' is a label that has been applied rather recently, but the pro-liberty movement it describes has always been here. May we agree?
Second, the tea party doesn't support attempts to get the banks to repay Bush's bailouts because limited-government minded people believe in limited government first. They are principled to a fault. They don't pick and choose issues to support based on public sentiment. Forcing private institutions to pay back a federal bailout is NOT within the Constitution's enumerated powers. Therefore, the government CANNOT force them to do so.Mar 4
Second, the tea party doesn't support attempts to get the banks to repay Bush's bailouts because limited-government minded people believe in limited government first. They are principled to a fault. They don't pick and choose issues to support based on public sentiment. Forcing private institutions to pay back a federal bailout is NOT within the Constitution's enumerated powers. Therefore, the government CANNOT force them to do so.Mar 4
Stuyvesant Parker - Oh jeez.
So, still, then, where was the highly publicized and organized version of the Tea Party movement when Bush was constructing the bailout plan and sinking the government into a massive deficit? Why are they suddenly stomping their feet so hard now, and not then?
And does the Tea Party movement have actual solutions for fixing the country's problems? You seem pretty familiar with all this, so if you can educate me that would be great. What is the Tea Party stance on health care reform? I hope to god you don't say "it doesn't need reform".Mar 4
So, still, then, where was the highly publicized and organized version of the Tea Party movement when Bush was constructing the bailout plan and sinking the government into a massive deficit? Why are they suddenly stomping their feet so hard now, and not then?
And does the Tea Party movement have actual solutions for fixing the country's problems? You seem pretty familiar with all this, so if you can educate me that would be great. What is the Tea Party stance on health care reform? I hope to god you don't say "it doesn't need reform".Mar 4
Robert Lee - Very insightful commentary there with the 'Oh jeez' statement.
Libertarians have been here all along. The republicans are new again to the whole limited government argument, and their sudden band wagon hopping helped to bring publicity to the largely quiet movement. The point is that one cannot base an argument labeling the tea party movement racist without an actual racist connection. These strawmen that you keep placing out there hide the fact that there is nothing inherently racist about people peaceably assembling on behalf of a common desire for fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government, and free markets.
I understand that it is difficult to demonize the tea party movement based solely on its merits. I know, too, that it is easy to attack them based on some misguided notions. Please drop the term racism. Argue the points. Mar 4
Libertaria
I understand that it is difficult to demonize the tea party movement based solely on its merits. I know, too, that it is easy to attack them based on some misguided notions. Please drop the term racism. Argue the points.
Stuyvesant Parker - That's why I am asking you what are the Tea Party's points? Most of their points are simply them arguing against things, without actually proposing solutions to the problems the current administration is trying to solve. Is that the Tea Party's "point"? That we should do nothing? The Tea Party is not another name for Libertarians.
So, again, what are the Tea Party's points that I am supposed to argue against?Mar 4
So, again, what are the Tea Party's points that I am supposed to argue against?Mar 4
Robert Gordon - @Robert - Rush Limbaugh is one of the biggest racists in America - you picked a horrible example.
@Dan - the "tea party" may claim to be "open" - but I'll bet 95 percent of them voted for Bush - probably more.
@Stuyvesant - great points. I don't really like the "Jim Cramer" (mad money) guy, but I heard him make a great point. It is the entire philosophy of the tea party movement that caused this mess in the first place. We did it their way, and now they are arguing that we weren't right wing enough.Mar 4
@Dan - the "tea party" may claim to be "open" - but I'll bet 95 percent of them voted for Bush - probably more.
@Stuyvesant - great points. I don't really like the "Jim Cramer" (mad money) guy, but I heard him make a great point. It is the entire philosophy of the tea party movement that caused this mess in the first place. We did it their way, and now they are arguing that we weren't right wing enough.Mar 4
Robert Lee - @Robert Gordon - Used Rush as a very specific example. Point made. Also, voting for Bush <> Racist. You can dislike the tea party, hate them even, but calling them racist requires extraordinary proof.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Stuyvesant - I have absolutely no ties to the tea party movement but for a common sentiment based on the tenets I listed, so I cannot speak for them. However, according to the information scoured from a brief Google search I offer this.
You ask what are the tea party's points. Here goes. Fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government, and free markets.
You ask what are they actually proposing. They have this crazy notion that the U.S. Constitution actually listed the powers of the federal government. They propose, stay with me now, that the federal government be limited to the powers enumerated therein. I know. I know. It's crazy. They even go so far as to agree with the 10th Amendment that "the powers," I'm quoting here, "not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
They are proposing that we honor the Constitution, which President Obama and President Bush swore to uphold and protect. They propose that any authority not specifically granted to the federal government be delegated to the states or have the Constitution amended to allow it. That's what they are for in a nutshell. It's fascinating reading really.Mar 5
You ask what are the tea party's points. Here goes. Fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government, and free markets.
You ask what are they actually proposing. They have this crazy notion that the U.S. Constitution actually listed the powers of the federal government. They propose, stay with me now, that the federal government be limited to the powers enumerated therein. I know. I know. It's crazy. They even go so far as to agree with the 10th Amendment that "the powers," I'm quoting here, "not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
They are proposing that we honor the Constitution, which President Obama and President Bush swore to uphold and protect. They propose that any authority not specifically granted to the federal government be delegated to the states or have the Constitution amended to allow it. That's what they are for in a nutshell. It's fascinating reading really.Mar 5
Stuyvesant Parker - @Robert Lee - So the short version of all that would be that they aren't proposing any sort of solution to the problems currently plaguing the US, they just want the federal government to basically go away? You seem to be a good blueprint for the Tea Party, or at least a Palin doppleganger: I ask you to propose solutions, you avoid answering my questions and instead list vague ideals with no actual suggestions for enacting them.
Fiscal responsibility? How do we go about doing that? Shrink the government? But then how does the government provide all the services we rely on? Perhaps we can get rid of Social Security and Medicare, those seem to be huge drains on the economy. Constitutionally limited government? Sure, but it wasn't Obama who busted the constitution all up, and he doesn't seem to be trying to do that at all. Free markets? Yeah, that's worked out so well so far. It would be completely irresponsible to not regulate the markets, and unfortunately we don't have some second United States where we can run a test of free unregulated markets so we can show all the stupid Tea Partiers that a "free market" doesn't work--as if the financial collapse isn't proof enough.
This is why we call the Tea Party racist. They don't have any actual points or enact-able policy. The Tea Party is an "anti-" movement. They are simply anti-everything. You can't fix problems by just saying "let's get rid of this, this, that, this, and this other thing... and maybe all the problems will just go away!" It just so happens all the things they are anti are the policies of a black man, and when they were the policies of a white man they supported them fully. I guess you could say it's just a coincidence all these white folk from the "real America" just happened to all wake up on the same day Barack Obama started to have a real shot at getting the White House, but that is one helluva coincidence.Mar 5
Fiscal responsibility? How do we go about doing that? Shrink the government? But then how does the government provide all the services we rely on? Perhaps we can get rid of Social Security and Medicare, those seem to be huge drains on the economy. Constitutionally limited government? Sure, but it wasn't Obama who busted the constitution all up, and he doesn't seem to be trying to do that at all. Free markets? Yeah, that's worked out so well so far. It would be completely irresponsible to not regulate the markets, and unfortunately we don't have some second United States where we can run a test of free unregulated markets so we can show all the stupid Tea Partiers that a "free market" doesn't work--as if the financial collapse isn't proof enough.
This is why we call the Tea Party racist. They don't have any actual points or enact-able policy. The Tea Party is an "anti-" movement. They are simply anti-everything. You can't fix problems by just saying "let's get rid of this, this, that, this, and this other thing... and maybe all the problems will just go away!" It just so happens all the things they are anti are the policies of a black man, and when they were the policies of a white man they supported them fully. I guess you could say it's just a coincidence all these white folk from the "real America" just happened to all wake up on the same day Barack Obama started to have a real shot at getting the White House, but that is one helluva coincidence.Mar 5
Steve Pirk - Sheesh! I walk afk for 120 minutes and the place blows up! hahahaha - @Robert Lee, I am not sure what specific thing stood out, but I think it was what this line evoked in me:
_"I hasten to note that I'm talking about real racism, insofar as it's impossible for the majority race -- the 70 percent white majority -- to be on the receiving end of racism."_
I was overseas from 2nd through 5th grade. Back in the states, I thought the kids were talking soccer when football was being discussed. I spend a childhood as a minority/outsider/foreigner, and did not understand the treatment of blacks when I came home in 1968. They were human weren't they? Just like all the other people I grew up around.
As far as I am concerned, I have been on the receiving end. Seeing that statement allowed me to see that people that have never been a minority or "on the receiving end" can never understand the needs of others who have. Mar 5
_"I hasten to note that I'm talking about real racism, insofar as it's impossible for the majority race -- the 70 percent white majority -- to be on the receiving end of racism."_
I was overseas from 2nd through 5th grade. Back in the states, I thought the kids were talking soccer when football was being discussed. I spend a childhood as a minority/outsider/fo
As far as I am concerned, I have been on the receiving end. Seeing that statement allowed me to see that people that have never been a minority or "on the receiving end" can never understand the needs of others who have.
Robert Gordon - @Robert Lee - people speak of "the Constitution" like it is completely sacrosanct - like you are talking about "God" or something. It is an awesome document, but there are lots of things we do these days that are not in it - we can honor its spirit without doing every last thing some guys in the 1700's said we should do.
To take just one of your points - that the tea party people are for "limited government" - that is not what they say - they say "small government". Well in some places they may be right - programs could be shrunk or even eliminated, but other parts of government possibly should be bigger. Should we eliminate food inspectors, building codes, transportation safety- or for that matter financial market regulators, because the libertarians think the free market will take care of everything?
The tea baggers got their wish - our Federal government is weak - it couldn't even rescue Americans dying in a drowning city, and they couldn't even see that their blind faith in the free markets had destroyed the economy, until it was too late.Mar 5
To take just one of your points - that the tea party people are for "limited government" - that is not what they say - they say "small government". Well in some places they may be right - programs could be shrunk or even eliminated, but other parts of government possibly should be bigger. Should we eliminate food inspectors, building codes, transportation safety- or for that matter financial market regulators, because the libertarians think the free market will take care of everything?
The tea baggers got their wish - our Federal government is weak - it couldn't even rescue Americans dying in a drowning city, and they couldn't even see that their blind faith in the free markets had destroyed the economy, until it was too late.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Steve Pirk - While I clearly have never been on the minority end of race issues, I do understand what it's like to be treated as a minority/outsider. Try being an devout Atheist in the Deep South sometime...
@Stuyvesant - I am enjoying our debate here, but please don't resort to name calling. I no more subscribe to the ideologies of Sarah Palin than I do of Brad Pitt. This brings up a good point though. Many on the left believe that those of us who are not progressives are just like Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin. However, there are many of us who simply have beliefs based on individual liberty and tend to lean right, but do not fall lockstep with Republicans. Mar 5
@Stuyvesa
Robert Gordon - @Steve - I sort of know what you mean - I lived in Africa for a few years about 10 years ago, and after you are there for a while you forget about race. When I came back, I was shocked at the racism - and the most shocking of all was Rush Limbaugh - I couldn't even believe they allowed him to broadcast.
@Robert Lee - it is an easy mistake to make, because really people on the right seem to so often fall in lockstep while progressives / liberals are all over the place. I am always amazed at how the conservative movement has linked together unrelated ideas - if you are a fiscal conservative, for some reason you have to be also be "pro life" and you can't believe in global warming. It makes no sense but somehow most of them seem to follow the party line.
I get viciously attacked for expressing progressive ideas, even though I have many conservative ideas and have actually worked for conservative causes - I think public employee unions are way out of hand, to give just one example. And that is really why I don't like the tea bag people - as Stuyvesant says, they don't really have any solutions - just a philosophy, and a dogma, and of course anger at Obama for not yet fixing the disaster he inherited.Mar 5
@Robert Lee - it is an easy mistake to make, because really people on the right seem to so often fall in lockstep while progressives / liberals are all over the place. I am always amazed at how the conservative movement has linked together unrelated ideas - if you are a fiscal conservative, for some reason you have to be also be "pro life" and you can't believe in global warming. It makes no sense but somehow most of them seem to follow the party line.
I get viciously attacked for expressing progressive ideas, even though I have many conservative ideas and have actually worked for conservative causes - I think public employee unions are way out of hand, to give just one example. And that is really why I don't like the tea bag people - as Stuyvesant says, they don't really have any solutions - just a philosophy, and a dogma, and of course anger at Obama for not yet fixing the disaster he inherited.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Robert Gordon - If the Constitution cannot be relied upon to be the highest law of the land, then what do we have to go by instead? Should we go by public opinion and the generational sways that go with it?
Limited government and small government may just be a distinction without a difference. However, my source states "limited government" specifically. The Constitution 'limits' the government.
Should we eliminate food inspectors? According the 10th Amendment that power is reserved to the states. Building codes? Yep, that too. Financial market regulators? A free market CANNOT have regulation, otherwise it wouldn't be free. Any regulated market is not a free market.Mar 5
Limited government and small government may just be a distinction without a difference. However, my source states "limited government" specifically. The Constitution 'limits' the government.
Should we eliminate food inspectors? According the 10th Amendment that power is reserved to the states. Building codes? Yep, that too. Financial market regulators? A free market CANNOT have regulation, otherwise it wouldn't be free. Any regulated market is not a free market.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @ Robet Gordon - I hope you don't feel attacked in any way by me. I respect your opinions and appreciate your candor.Mar 5
Stuyvesant Parker - ... still waiting for someone to explain exactly what the Tea Party stands for aside from vague ideologies. Do they have any actual concrete policies or suggestions for how we can get ourselves out of the mess the US is currently in? I see a lot of "don't insult the tea party" going on in here but not a lot of actual proof that the tea party aren't just a bunch of racists disguising their racism behind a veil of vague ideologies that can't actually be enacted in reality.
We need to give the Tea Party their own state separate from the Union so they can drive it into the ground and hopefully be very pleased with themselves. Give them Texas or something.Mar 5
We need to give the Tea Party their own state separate from the Union so they can drive it into the ground and hopefully be very pleased with themselves. Give them Texas or something.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Stuyvesant - Isn't the term 'the Tea Party' a vague term as it is? How can you ask for specific policy initiatives when you can't be more specific than 'the Tea Party'? Who is 'the Tea Party'?Mar 5
Stuyvesant Parker - @Robert Lee Now you're avoiding the issue completely by playing semantics and trying to be cute. OK, so you know that Tea Party convention that just happened that Sarah Palin spoke for. What were their policy suggestions for correcting the mess the US is in? Considering the Tea Party is actually being taken seriously as a potential third party, I'd say it's pretty much not at all vague who the tea party is. But your continued attempts at avoiding my direct questions are appreciated.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Stuyvesant - I am not going to attempt to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the accuser here. Where is the proof that 'the Tea Party' is a bunch of racists? If I were to join some march tomorrow, at what point would I become a racist?Mar 5
Stuyvesant Parker - @Robert Lee I want to point out that in this thread you said "First, Libertarians, who support the Tea Party movement by and large..." so obviously you know who the Tea Party is. Why don't you answer the question I am posing to you now: What are the suggested policy changes the Tea Party believes will fix the problems facing the US government today?Mar 5
Robert Gordon - @Robert Lee - partly as a joke, I was calling myself a "progressive libertarian" - but I actually think a third party with a name something like that would be a good idea here in California, where both parties are broken.
@Stuyvesant - you should check out the "coffee party" movement - it is growing fast and I hope it takes off. They are vague too though - while the tea people are about "the constitution" the coffee people are about "democracy" - but I think much less "angry than the tea people.Mar 5
@Stuyvesant - you should check out the "coffee party" movement - it is growing fast and I hope it takes off. They are vague too though - while the tea people are about "the constitution" the coffee people are about "democracy" - but I think much less "angry than the tea people.Mar 5
Stuyvesant Parker - @Robert Lee regarding "burdern of proof is on the accuser" I've already provided my proof: once you realize the Tea Party's points are all nonsensical generalities that are largely meaningless, it becomes quite clear that the Tea Party is simply anti-Obama, and when the policies they oppose were being enacted by a white man, they were supportive, but now that they are being enacted by a black man they are vehemently and violently against them. That seems like racism. Now the burden of disproving this falls on you.
Now do me a favor and stop avoiding all my questions and actually start answering them.Mar 5
Now do me a favor and stop avoiding all my questions and actually start answering them.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Stuyvesant - I know that the Tea Party movement is. Movements are not political platforms but rather a central point to rally around.
Since you are really stuck on that whole 'yeah but what are there policies?' kick, try Googling it. Let me know what you find.
If you want to know more about the Libertarian policy initiatives I can guide you to the right sources.Mar 5
Since you are really stuck on that whole 'yeah but what are there policies?' kick, try Googling it. Let me know what you find.
If you want to know more about the Libertarian policy initiatives I can guide you to the right sources.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Stuyvesant - Wow, prefacing any statement of proof with "once you realize the [other person's] points are all nonsensical generalities that are largely meaningless" makes it sound very believable indeed.Mar 5
Stuyvesant Parker - @Robert Lee And supporting and defending a movement whose stances purely amount to "we're against everything the other guy is for and don't ask us how we could do better 'cause we don't know" is no less ridiculous and possibly more unbelievable.
An example of how Tea Partiers argue their points: I'm for human rights! "What rights?" The right rights! "But what rights are those?" Human rights! "Specifically what rights do you support?" The rights of humans that all humans are guaranteed by the Constitution!
That's basically what you're doing right now. It's doublespeak. That's all it is.Mar 5
An example of how Tea Partiers argue their points: I'm for human rights! "What rights?" The right rights! "But what rights are those?" Human rights! "Specifically what rights do you support?" The rights of humans that all humans are guaranteed by the Constitution!
That's basically what you're doing right now. It's doublespeak. That's all it is.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Stuyvesant - Show proof that Tea Partiers are racist. Not a few, there are a few racists in every large set.
..."and when the policies they oppose were being enacted by a white man, they were supportive." Ask Bill Clinton how that whole Hillary-care thing turned out. Lots of support from conservatives on that?Mar 5
..."and when the policies they oppose were being enacted by a white man, they were supportive." Ask Bill Clinton how that whole Hillary-care thing turned out. Lots of support from conservatives on that?Mar 5
Robert Lee - @ Stuyvesant - And if you find the idiot that would come up with an argument such as "we're against everything the other guy is for and don't ask us how we could do better" let me know. I'd be your strongest ally in that fight.Mar 5
Stuyvesant Parker - @Robert Lee perhaps if you researched the tea party better you'd see that the gist of their movement is "we're against everything the other guy is for and don't ask us how we could do better 'cause we don't know"
This is tiresome. I'm going back to my movie. I'm trying to get some sort of reasoned response out of you and you're just doublespeaking in circles. If rationality, reason, and clear points aren't something you think a valid and justifiable movement/party/whatever needs in order to be taken seriously, then obviously we are not going to see eye to eye.
It's one thing to say you support or believe in something, but it's entirely another to actually demonstrate how it could be enacted. The tea party has no enact-able policies. The entire core of their existence simply depends on opposing Obama's policies. Mar 5
This is tiresome. I'm going back to my movie. I'm trying to get some sort of reasoned response out of you and you're just doublespeaking in circles. If rationality, reason, and clear points aren't something you think a valid and justifiable movement/party/whate
It's one thing to say you support or believe in something, but it's entirely another to actually demonstrate how it could be enacted. The tea party has no enact-able policies. The entire core of their existence simply depends on opposing Obama's policies.
Robert Lee - @Stuyvesant - While that would be a pathetic finding, that would prove they're idiots. But, I could not derive from that finding that they're anymore racist than any other set.Mar 5
Stuyvesant Parker - The proof of racism is that they were not against any of Obama's policies when Obama's policies were Bush's policies. If Obama was a white Republican, and this is impossible to prove obviously (except, you know, to travel back in time a year and half when Obama wasn't President and there wasn't a Tea Party movement), there wouldn't be a tea party movement. That is what makes it a racist movement.
~finMar 5
~finMar 5
Robert Gordon - No one can say definitively whether they are racist - I am sure that some of them are, but I am also sure that many of them are not- but I do know that almost all of them were for Bush, so it is not an "open" movement at all. One thing I really, really, really hate about them though is when you hear them say, "we want our country back". Well someone needs to get in their faces and say, "you can't have it back, because it belongs to all of us".Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Robert Gordon - I agree. The Tea Party movement is largely conservative thus largely pro-Bush. The Tea Party movement is only open in that it is not well-defined. It is not solely pro-lifers or solely Palinites. But, make no mistake, it is a politically right movement.Mar 5
chris Lescale - The foundation of the "Tea Party" movement was an unorganized upwelling of anger which manifested itself last year around the time of the "Stimulus Bill". However the frustration and anger expressed by many of the participants started well before that with "TARP". Ad hominem arguments against the movement are ridiculous. If you cannot refute the general concepts of limited government, fiscal responsibility, and free markets other than by name calling, then you have made no point either. There are many in that movement who understand the issues at hand. There are more who really just go with talking points made by talk radio commentators and failed vice-presidential candidates. This does not take away from the general concepts that were the founding of the "Tea Party" movement. The recent organization of the "Tea Party" movement into a political voting block has lost the original intent, which was to express frustration against rampant government spending and a perception of zealous government intervention.Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Stuyvesant(10:04 pm CT 03/04/2010): Racism = because the "Tea Party" movement, a predominately white group, disagrees with the current head of state. Does this mean that southern inner city ministers, a predominately African-American group, were racist when they disagreed with the former head of state?Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Stuyvesant(10:17 pm CT 03/04/2010): Tax cuts, spend $30,000.00/yr on an employee to get $1500.00 relief on payroll taxes. That’s something to be celebrated. The “TARP” funds were approved by a predominately Democrat majority and did not require oversight or remuneration.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @chis lescale - There has been a lot of accusations of racism thrown around here without any direct links to back anything up. Because nothing the Tea Party says or does makes sense to some, they are labeled racist because racism is easy to demonize. Build that strawman and attack it.
I'm sorry, but that is a very poor argument. However, when the groupthought is primed just right, it makes perfect sense.Mar 5
I'm sorry, but that is a very poor argument. However, when the groupthought is primed just right, it makes perfect sense.Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Stuyvesant(10:35 pm CT 03/04/2010): Was it the Stamp Act, the Tea Act, quartering of troops, restrictions on trade, lack of representation,, or the Boston Massacre that resulted in the original tea party? It was all of these but they did not occur all at once, each was enacted individually as a policy or action over time, which resulted in anger and resentment manifested in the Boston Tea Party.
I cannot speak for solutions as I am not familiar enough with the “Tea Party” movement.Mar 5
I cannot speak for solutions as I am not familiar enough with the “Tea Party” movement.Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Robert Lee(10:49 pm CT 03/04/2010): Thank you for demanding proof of racism. Oftentimes people will throw a negative label against a person/organization, with no evidence, to discredit the person/organization. This is called ad hominem and is a common tactic to make the person/organization seem less acceptable. Are there racists in the “Tea Party” movement? As you point out of course as there are racists in all movements in society, does this discredit valid points raised by the movement? No.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @ Chris Lescale, I simply believe that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Racism is a rather extraordinary claim, thus it requires extraordinary evidence. This method of proof by subtraction exemplified by detractors in this thread leaves a LOT up to interpretation and does not meet any deliberative person's notion of extraordinary evidence.Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Stuyvesant(10:58 pm CT 03/04/2010) Points of the “Tea Party” movement as an outsider can see.
1.Federal government stay within limits established by the supreme law of the land.
2.Federal Government return to spending less than or equal to income. Stop the rampant borrowing started under the previous administration and taken to new levels under the current administration.
3.Allow the free market to work.
There are powers that the Federal Government has which allow it to address the current issues without violating the above points. Mar 5
1.Federal government stay within limits established by the supreme law of the land.
2.Federal Government return to spending less than or equal to income. Stop the rampant borrowing started under the previous administration and taken to new levels under the current administration.
3.All
There are powers that the Federal Government has which allow it to address the current issues without violating the above points.
chris Lescale - @ Robert Gordon(10:59 pm CT 03/04/2010) “Rush Limbaugh is one of the biggest racists in America”, please provide evidence. (Note I do not like Rush I like even less the use of labels against people or organizations without evidence even less)
The composition of the “Tea Party” movement is up for conjecture at best as it was not an organized upwelling with roll calls.
“We did it their way”- Not true, what brought this mess about was, government intervention in the market. By insuring questionable loans and encouraging banks to make the same, the government told banks there would be no penalty for failure. The previous administration encouraged this with a policy statement that home ownership was to be increased during its tenure.Mar 5
The composition of the “Tea Party” movement is up for conjecture at best as it was not an organized upwelling with roll calls.
“We did it their way”- Not true, what brought this mess about was, government intervention in the market. By insuring questionable loans and encouraging banks to make the same, the government told banks there would be no penalty for failure. The previous administration encouraged this with a policy statement that home ownership was to be increased during its tenure.Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Robert Lee(11:06 & 11:20 pm 03/04/2010) Trying to explain the concept sometimes results in ramming your head into a brick wall. Stuyvesant wants to know specific solutions, as you are not involved with the “Tea Party” movement anymore than I am that is not something we can provide. Again thank you for trying to bring this thread to its original topic which is that anyone who disagrees with the sitting president is labeled a racist by those who want to discredit any who dare to criticize the policies enacted or proposed thus far.Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Stuyvesant(11:25 pm 03/04/2010) Again with ad hominem arguments “Palin doppelganger”? Can you remain on point and answer the question? Please provide evidence that the “Tea Party” movement is racist.
Fiscal responsibility – Which services do you believe the Federal Government should provide: housing, healthcare, food, televisions, computers, cars, jobs? Where is individual responsibility? Our economy has not been a “Free Market” economy for the last 150yrs. We have experienced “Crony Capitalism” at its worst; this is what resulted in our current situation.
So again your reasoning for the label is the “Tea Party” movement does not have a platform? Wow! That is the evidence we need. Oh wait and the frustration finally came to a boil when the new president starts taking measure more extreme than the last. Again protesting policies makes those, who disagree racists.Mar 5
Fiscal responsibility – Which services do you believe the Federal Government should provide: housing, healthcare, food, televisions, computers, cars, jobs? Where is individual responsibility? Our economy has not been a “Free Market” economy for the last 150yrs. We have experienced “Crony Capitalism” at its worst; this is what resulted in our current situation.
So again your reasoning for the label is the “Tea Party” movement does not have a platform? Wow! That is the evidence we need. Oh wait and the frustration finally came to a boil when the new president starts taking measure more extreme than the last. Again protesting policies makes those, who disagree racists.Mar 5
Robert Gordon - @Chirs - provide proof that Rush Limbaugh is a racist? I really don't have to - most people who don't think he is a racist are racists themselves as he spews it more or less constantly. Because this is the "dog whistle" words he uses, but you don't think that "magic Negro" song that gave people like you so much glee was racist? - or that fact that he got fired from Monday night football - that absolute gold standard for broadcasting for being a racist. I can always tell a Rush follower because the parrot the same idiotic things and convince themselves they are the majority.
The tea baggers were not "spontaneous" - they were promoted by Fox News, and they were ALL Bush supporters, and while it wouldn't be fair to say they are all racists, many of them are, and they hate the idea of a black man as President and will blame him for policies that were just fine under Bush. Case closed.
Mega dittos good buddy!Mar 5
The tea baggers were not "spontaneous" - they were promoted by Fox News, and they were ALL Bush supporters, and while it wouldn't be fair to say they are all racists, many of them are, and they hate the idea of a black man as President and will blame him for policies that were just fine under Bush. Case closed.
Mega dittos good buddy!Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Robert Gordon (11:54 CT) I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, sorry.
The "Tea Party" movement was not spontaneous? That is quite a shock to me as I did not see advertisements for it in the beginning. I heard rumblings from friends, but was not interested in it as it seemed it would ultimately be co-opted by the Republican party and vilified by the Democrats.
Please do not make foolish assumptions about me regarding my news choices or belief structure as I will not make the same for you.Mar 5
The "Tea Party" movement was not spontaneous? That is quite a shock to me as I did not see advertisements for it in the beginning. I heard rumblings from friends, but was not interested in it as it seemed it would ultimately be co-opted by the Republican party and vilified by the Democrats.
Please do not make foolish assumptions about me regarding my news choices or belief structure as I will not make the same for you.Mar 5
Pan Arky - Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone "Vampire Squid" fame weighed in on the Tea Party racism debate on CNBC this morning:
The Tea Party movement, and let’s admit this, has some of its roots in legitimate grievances about government waste and some not-entirely-inaccurate observations about what’s left of the American welfare state.
Of course what resonates most with the suburban whites who mostly make up the Tea Party are stories about minorities and immigrants using section 8 housing, food stamps, Medicaid, TANF and other programs, with the Obama stimulus being for them a symbol of this ongoing government largess.
The heat of the Tea Party movement comes from the racial frustrations that actually exist out there, in the real world outside New York and LA, as urban expansion and immigration increasingly throw white and nonwhite communities together, with white Tea Party types more and more often blowing gaskets over increased crime rates, declining school standards, and mislaid or wasted tax revenue.
http://www.businessinsider.com/taibbi-rips-santelli-and-the-cnbc-goons-2010-3 Mar 5
The Tea Party movement, and let’s admit this, has some of its roots in legitimate grievances about government waste and some not-entirely-inaccur
Of course what resonates most with the suburban whites who mostly make up the Tea Party are stories about minorities and immigrants using section 8 housing, food stamps, Medicaid, TANF and other programs, with the Obama stimulus being for them a symbol of this ongoing government largess.
The heat of the Tea Party movement comes from the racial frustrations that actually exist out there, in the real world outside New York and LA, as urban expansion and immigration increasingly throw white and nonwhite communities together, with white Tea Party types more and more often blowing gaskets over increased crime rates, declining school standards, and mislaid or wasted tax revenue.
http://www.b
Robert Gordon - @Chris - you don't? - ever? Are you being honest? - because I do on occasion, and your talking points are identical to his. I do tend to think it is an over generalization to say the tea party people are racist, but it is almost certainly true that they are FAR more racist then the vast majority of Americans. That is disgusting enough of course, but what really make them repulsive to me is that I think they are hypocrites - especially in the area of medical insurance - because I think many of them already have medicare or some kind of government supported medical insurance, but they don't count that, they just don't want anyone else to have it.
by the way, when is their next angry march - seems like they haven't had one in a while.Mar 5
by the way, when is their next angry march - seems like they haven't had one in a while.Mar 5
Robert Gordon - @Pan - that is at least insightful - the American suburbs are toast - and yes, they hate welfare except for the kinds they get. But "blowing a gasket" over declining school standards, while being against taxes is why so many see this movement as hypocritical - they don't believe in government, except when it supports them as long as someone else pays for it.Mar 5
Pan Arky - @Robert Gordon - this buzz is about racism in the Tea Party movement, not hypocrisy. Instead of arguing over vague generalities and opinions, maybe commentors can take an online test to understand their own biases: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/takeatest.html Mar 5
chris Lescale - @ Robert Gordon (12:53) In the last election I refused to vote for either of the major party candidates because they were both for the concept of a larger more intrusive federal government. Republicans want to legislate morality and Democrats want to legislate our lives. I was fortunate that there was a candidate on the ballot in Louisiana for whom I could vote. I was one of only ~10,000 to vote for Dr. Paul. I could not get involved in the meet ups for my candidate as life interfered. I agree with you that what was a grassroots movement has been co-opted and is currently being transformed into something unrelated to its origin. I believe in personal responsibility and understand that sometimes events beyond our control happen in our lives. That being said, it is not the responsibility of the federal government to help us through those events. It belongs to the individual's community (family, faith, friends, neighbors) not someone unrelated and unknown 10,15,25,100,1000 miles away.Mar 5
Robert Gordon - @chris - not the Federal governments responsibility to help when "event beyond our control" happen. So for example, hypothetically if a flood happened in a major American city the Federal government should just sit on its ass?
I am not a libertarian except in some areas, but I will give your Dr. Paul credit for one thing- he is the only Republican to decline his government health insurance. The rest of them have fantastic government supplied heath insurance, but rant and rave about the possibility of anyone else getting even minor support with health care. Yes, I consider most of them to be hypocrites.
@Pan - I will point out the hypocrisy of the tea party movement whenever and wherever I want - and I am not going to waste my time on your stupid quiz - nice try.Mar 5
I am not a libertarian except in some areas, but I will give your Dr. Paul credit for one thing- he is the only Republican to decline his government health insurance. The rest of them have fantastic government supplied heath insurance, but rant and rave about the possibility of anyone else getting even minor support with health care. Yes, I consider most of them to be hypocrites.
@Pan - I will point out the hypocrisy of the tea party movement whenever and wherever I want - and I am not going to waste my time on your stupid quiz - nice try.Mar 5
Pan Arky - I tried Harvard's racism test, and it's really pretty clever how it identifies hidden bias. The test takes about 5 minutes, but don't do it you don't want to learn something about yourself.
My results are here: http://www.google.com/buzz/114850666267898920786/FHBJ1rTmhZJ/ Mar 5
My results are here: http://www.google.co
Robert Gordon - Ok Pan I took it, and as I posted "Your data suggest little to no automatic preference between European American and African American". So now that I am certified as non-racist, let me say again - Rush Limbaugh is one of the biggest racists in America - at least one with a public platform.Mar 5
chris Lescale - @Robert Gordon (1:20) Regarding flooding in a major American city: The initial responsibility for the safety of citizens and property and recovery falls on the municipality affected and the state in which the city is located. This is the concept of our form of government, when all measures have been taken to provide for that then the state can ask for assistance from the federal government in the form of loans to recover. This is part of the process for declaring a state of emergency.
Additionally an amendment to the current healthcare plan in congress was proposed that would require Congress to take part in the health plan. It was voted down.
However the topic at hand is racism. Please provide evidence that the "Tea Party" movement is racist. The ethnic composition of the group and the sitting president are not evidence of such. Mar 5
Additional
However the topic at hand is racism. Please provide evidence that the "Tea Party" movement is racist. The ethnic composition of the group and the sitting president are not evidence of such.
Robert Gordon - @chris Lescale - of course people should take care of themselves first, then their friends family and neighbors, then their city and state - and if all those don't work? The Federal government should just sit on its ass because of some constitutional principle. By the way, it might have been constitutionally illegal for Bush to bring the military in if some American city had a big flood - but no one would have questioned it - not even the most extreme liberals. During one flood of an American city, soldiers at a nearby Military base were seen playing basketball while their fellow Americans were dying.
Prove that the teabaggers are racist? Now how exactly could I do that? I think Stuyvesant made the best point - they were completely silent when George Bush was president - even though he spent the entire treasury and then some, and now they protest even policies that are exactly the same as Bush when a black man is president. It is not proof, but it is the scientific method - that is the only major variable that has changed.Mar 5
Prove that the teabaggers are racist? Now how exactly could I do that? I think Stuyvesant made the best point - they were completely silent when George Bush was president - even though he spent the entire treasury and then some, and now they protest even policies that are exactly the same as Bush when a black man is president. It is not proof, but it is the scientific method - that is the only major variable that has changed.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Robert Gordon - If any perceived threat is reason enough to ignore our Constitution, then what good is it for? What should be the guiding law of the land since the Constitution has little merit with you?
The ability to amend the Constitution is written into the Constitution with certain protections built in to avoid it being changed on a whim. If it is suitable for the federal government to offer aid to an area stricken by natural disaster then amend the Constitution to allow for it. But, do not simply ignore it for some perceived public good.
The oath that President Obama took, just as every previous office holder has, promises to 'preserve' the Constitution. It says nothing about providing for any individual needs. Leave the local problems to the local government and let the federal government get back to providing for those things specifically listed in the Constitution or amend it to allow for more updated functions.Mar 5
The ability to amend the Constitution is written into the Constitution with certain protections built in to avoid it being changed on a whim. If it is suitable for the federal government to offer aid to an area stricken by natural disaster then amend the Constitution to allow for it. But, do not simply ignore it for some perceived public good.
The oath that President Obama took, just as every previous office holder has, promises to 'preserve' the Constitution. It says nothing about providing for any individual needs. Leave the local problems to the local government and let the federal government get back to providing for those things specifically listed in the Constitution or amend it to allow for more updated functions.Mar 5
Pan Arky - Where does the Constitution say that the military can't assist in a disaster? I can't find that part anywhere.Mar 5
Robert Gordon - @Robert Lee - oh that is just ridiculous saving Americans who are dying is "a perceived public good" - and it shouldn't be done because it might be unconstitutional. You have really hit the nail on the head on what is wrong with the entire tea bag movement - they don't care how many time their philosophy is proven wrong or how much damage they do, as long as it fit their various dogmas "free markets" etc. Their laissez faire philosophy destroyed the entire economy, and now they ask us to swallow that America just wasn't right wing enough.Mar 5
Robert Gordon - Posse Comitatus Act - an interpretation of the constitution, but that is not the issue. The tea baggers argue that if it is not in the constitution then we shouldn't do it - so unless it is a power specifically given to the Federal government back in the 1700s then they have no right to do it. Things like food inspections, building codes, flight safety, etc - the free market should do it!Mar 5
Chris Lescale - @Robert Gordon (3:05 pm CT) Please cite the specific example regarding an American city flooding while troops at a nearby base were playing basketball. I would like to know the city and the military bases involved so that I can research the issue further.
So $800+Billion (1st year deficit) and another projected $2.2Trillion (2nd year deficit) is not a variable that would result in anger with the current administration?Mar 5
So $800+Billion (1st year deficit) and another projected $2.2Trillion (2nd year deficit) is not a variable that would result in anger with the current administration?Mar 5
Corrine L. McDermid - Wow, intense discussion. I don't have the time at the moment to do the survey, but having covered the Ron Paul People at the New Hampshire primaries and debates, too many Palin campaign rallies, and the Tea Party movement emerging, I wanted to drop in a few thoughts.
What we refer to as the Tea Party can, like any other political collective noun, be divided down to the atom, but perhaps the most useful divide to look at here is the emotional/intellectual divide. Please note, this is only a way of looking at things, not a concrete. Any group marching the streets though, will have people there because the cause resonates with them primarily intellectually, and those there because it resonates emotionally in a very powerful way.
I see the Ron Paul movement coming about via Libertarian ideas and originally being very intellectually based. I watched more people being drawn in because the ideas resonated with them at an emotional level. They couldn't necessarily tell you what the macro-economic theory was behind central banking and the fed, for example (nor Dr. Paul's objections), but seeing it as a major component of all that was and is going wrong made sense to them at the gut. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes some very bad ideas make some very good intellectual sense, and sometimes the gut has a lot more common sense than theory.
But when the Tea Party movement began to appear, it seems like the numbers became more disproportionate. Individual's reasons for becoming swept up in the movement became more chaotic as more groups added their voices, from 9/11 Truthers, to Birthers, and back to Ron Paul People. And so as a group, I would analyze that it is hardly any wonder that the it's hard to get a concrete manifesto out of the Tea Party. It seems to me to be a lot of people who are desperately aware that things have been and are going horribly wrong. Because the movement seems to be primarily reactive at the moment, it's hardly shocking that the core intellectual component of the group is somewhat confused and drowned.
The thing that I don't see on this thread though, which I find alarming, is an acknowledgment that race in America is a very, very complex and very, very pervasive thing. I have talked with a lot of folks who think that racism in the North in the US is more dangerous than racism in the South, because socialization ensures that Northern racism stays covert, even in the minds of those perpetrating it. The relationship between poverty and racism can't be ignored, nor all the subtleties of racism to do with other minority groups instead of the black and white divide who we so neatly fall into talking about. Not to mention the enormities of our immigration issue, and issues surrounding the perception of Islam in post-9/11 America.
Any time there is a large group of frightened and angry people, taking to the streets and having conventions in this country, especially if they are predominately white, I assert that race is a big component. We won't say it out loud too often, but race and fear are still tied together in this country. Maybe welded.
Currently there is a large movement, impassioned by a lot of fear, with so many different primary motives for individual participation (from Fed bashing, to banks and bailouts, to personal job loss, to conspiracy) -- of course racism is a part of it, and of course it's hard to put forth proof that the movement is about other things. If it is about fear in this country, it is at least partially about race. And of course, not everyone involved is a racist.
If you want proof of racism, it is in the speeches, the cartoons, and the signs you can see at almost any Tea Party rally. You may say that this is a group within the larger movement, but thought it may only comprise a small percentage of any rally, it is present at every rally, and vocal. And, I think most damning, it is tolerated. I have yet to see a Tea Bag activist confront another holding an egregiously racist placard.
This is too bad, because Ceska has a point -- since other frameworks are hard to isolate in such a conglomerate group, it leaves the racism looking an awful lot like what is holding the whole thing together.
Those of you writing on this thread who are part of the movement, I wouldn't accuse you of being individual racists. It sounds to me like a lot of people here have an emotional and intellectual investment in the movement, and solid intellectual reasoning. Discussion of your perspectives is absolutely vital for our future. You are left with the challenge of bringing common points out of this melange of a movement, and it is only you who can take the responsibility to talk to to your fellows and ask if the watermelon jokes are really what you want to be all about.
My two cents, anyway. Mar 5
What we refer to as the Tea Party can, like any other political collective noun, be divided down to the atom, but perhaps the most useful divide to look at here is the emotional/intellectu
I see the Ron Paul movement coming about via Libertarian ideas and originally being very intellectually based. I watched more people being drawn in because the ideas resonated with them at an emotional level. They couldn't necessarily tell you what the macro-economic theory was behind central banking and the fed, for example (nor Dr. Paul's objections), but seeing it as a major component of all that was and is going wrong made sense to them at the gut. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes some very bad ideas make some very good intellectual sense, and sometimes the gut has a lot more common sense than theory.
But when the Tea Party movement began to appear, it seems like the numbers became more disproportionate. Individual's reasons for becoming swept up in the movement became more chaotic as more groups added their voices, from 9/11 Truthers, to Birthers, and back to Ron Paul People. And so as a group, I would analyze that it is hardly any wonder that the it's hard to get a concrete manifesto out of the Tea Party. It seems to me to be a lot of people who are desperately aware that things have been and are going horribly wrong. Because the movement seems to be primarily reactive at the moment, it's hardly shocking that the core intellectual component of the group is somewhat confused and drowned.
The thing that I don't see on this thread though, which I find alarming, is an acknowledgment that race in America is a very, very complex and very, very pervasive thing. I have talked with a lot of folks who think that racism in the North in the US is more dangerous than racism in the South, because socialization ensures that Northern racism stays covert, even in the minds of those perpetrating it. The relationship between poverty and racism can't be ignored, nor all the subtleties of racism to do with other minority groups instead of the black and white divide who we so neatly fall into talking about. Not to mention the enormities of our immigration issue, and issues surrounding the perception of Islam in post-9/11 America.
Any time there is a large group of frightened and angry people, taking to the streets and having conventions in this country, especially if they are predominately white, I assert that race is a big component. We won't say it out loud too often, but race and fear are still tied together in this country. Maybe welded.
Currently there is a large movement, impassioned by a lot of fear, with so many different primary motives for individual participation (from Fed bashing, to banks and bailouts, to personal job loss, to conspiracy) -- of course racism is a part of it, and of course it's hard to put forth proof that the movement is about other things. If it is about fear in this country, it is at least partially about race. And of course, not everyone involved is a racist.
If you want proof of racism, it is in the speeches, the cartoons, and the signs you can see at almost any Tea Party rally. You may say that this is a group within the larger movement, but thought it may only comprise a small percentage of any rally, it is present at every rally, and vocal. And, I think most damning, it is tolerated. I have yet to see a Tea Bag activist confront another holding an egregiously racist placard.
This is too bad, because Ceska has a point -- since other frameworks are hard to isolate in such a conglomerate group, it leaves the racism looking an awful lot like what is holding the whole thing together.
Those of you writing on this thread who are part of the movement, I wouldn't accuse you of being individual racists. It sounds to me like a lot of people here have an emotional and intellectual investment in the movement, and solid intellectual reasoning. Discussion of your perspectives is absolutely vital for our future. You are left with the challenge of bringing common points out of this melange of a movement, and it is only you who can take the responsibility to talk to to your fellows and ask if the watermelon jokes are really what you want to be all about.
My two cents, anyway.
Jack Villarreal - I'm not gonna comment on the issue at hand, but I will say this: I am glad Buzz does not have a character limit :)Mar 5
Steve Pirk - @Corrine... Thank you. The second person to show me what is "not right" in my mind about the movement. "Do no Evil" is a great 'first law of humanity', and the fact that the blatant racist types are "tolerated" is the issue. Corrine put it best: [quote]it is present at every rally, and vocal. And, I think most damning, it is tolerated. I have yet to see a Tea Bag activist confront another holding an egregiously racist placard.[/quote]
If you make no attempt to stop blatant racism, especially at a televised event, you are doing evil. Plain and simple. No grey here at all.
That is what bugged me so much. How easily America tolerates behavior like that. I'm friggin' embarrassed.Mar 5
If you make no attempt to stop blatant racism, especially at a televised event, you are doing evil. Plain and simple. No grey here at all.
That is what bugged me so much. How easily America tolerates behavior like that. I'm friggin' embarrassed.Mar 5
Robert Gordon - @Chis Lescale - is a reference from a Nobel Laureate good enough for you? http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/a-katrina-mystery-explained/
@Jack Villarreal - I am too, almost nothing that isn't shallow happens on Facebook, I may disagree with many here, but at least everyone can make their point,
@Corrine McDermid - Wow - wonderful and insightful post, and I don't think anyone can really categorize it as "left or right" - thank you for that.
I still think that in some ways the tea party people get too much press - even on progressive/left networks like MSNBC that is all they talk about. The Coffee Party movement isn't covered at all, but the left doesn't like what is going on in this country either - last time I went to their webpage there were still getting "tweets" about every 15 seconds.Mar 5
@Jack Villarreal - I am too, almost nothing that isn't shallow happens on Facebook, I may disagree with many here, but at least everyone can make their point,
@Corrine McDermid - Wow - wonderful and insightful post, and I don't think anyone can really categorize it as "left or right" - thank you for that.
I still think that in some ways the tea party people get too much press - even on progressive/left networks like MSNBC that is all they talk about. The Coffee Party movement isn't covered at all, but the left doesn't like what is going on in this country either - last time I went to their webpage there were still getting "tweets" about every 15 seconds.Mar 5
Alice "aliattitude" Gray - Steve, thank you for this. In between watching tonight's news, fixing dinner, and listening to my loved one's diatribe about the financial advantages of renting out our house to a close relative, and buying a new house in this market, I did manage to get this marvelous op-ed posted to FaceBook and inquire as to my friends' take on same. tongue-in-cheek -ly - aliattitudeMar 5
Steve Pirk - @Alice LOL thank you! Sheesh, I know not what I started... wow. that refiamerica blog has powerful mojo... hahahahaMar 5
Alice "aliattitude" Gray - Yup.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Corrine McDermid - Very well said. Very insightful without being inciteful. I believe you summed up the racism slant in such a way that we may all agree with. There are racist in the Tea Party movement. However, I believe that one can be a member of the Tea Party movement without being a racist. Unfortunately the few spoil the batch in this case.Mar 5
Robert Lee - @Robert Gordon - You miss the point about the federal government not helping out in a disaster. You wrongly assume that the federal government is the only thing that stands between life and death in cases such as these. However, if the federal government would not have been anointed our savior during disasters then other groups would step up. The state would take a more active role, churches, the American Red Cross, etc. We as Americans are not helpless.
However, the federal government has assumed these powers somewhere along the way without amending the Constitution to allow for it. So now, when disaster strikes the state and local municipalities stand around pointing at each other with one hand and at the federal government with the other waiting for someone to take charge. If the state jumps in too soon, they risk hurting themselves financially by delaying federal help and the money that comes with it.
I experienced this first hand during Hurricane Katrina. I saw our Governor and the Mayor of New Orleans stand around for two days waiting for the federal response because they were helpless themselves. Do you know why they were helpless? Because the disaster planning in this region is based on the fact that the federal government is responsible for acting. That is a sad, sad state to be in. The local government was helpless and you would not have it any other way, would you?
Central planning at its finest.Mar 5
However, the federal government has assumed these powers somewhere along the way without amending the Constitution to allow for it. So now, when disaster strikes the state and local municipalities stand around pointing at each other with one hand and at the federal government with the other waiting for someone to take charge. If the state jumps in too soon, they risk hurting themselves financially by delaying federal help and the money that comes with it.
I experienced this first hand during Hurricane Katrina. I saw our Governor and the Mayor of New Orleans stand around for two days waiting for the federal response because they were helpless themselves. Do you know why they were helpless? Because the disaster planning in this region is based on the fact that the federal government is responsible for acting. That is a sad, sad state to be in. The local government was helpless and you would not have it any other way, would you?
Central planning at its finest.Mar 5
Robert Gordon - @Robert Lee - give me a break. I let some of the earlier comically absurd things you said slide. Eliminate building inspectors you say - well yeah, that just worked out real well in Haiti didn't it, and food inspectors - let the free market to it - companies that kill their customers will eventually get a bad reputation and will go out of business, proving that free markets work. Get rid of the air traffic controller while you are at it - why should the Federal government be involved in that- it is not in the Constitution! You are what is infuriating about the tea party mentality - if reality doesn't match the dogma, then something must me wrong with reality. Let's see, not regulating the financial industry caused a run on the banks and financial markets and nearly destroyed the economy - that really means we must have been regulating too much - right - because the tea party dogma can never be wrong - it just can't be!
Reading your stuff, I am convinced that that you don't even know what the Constitution is about - except perhaps, like most tea party people, at a comic book level. Go back and re-read it. Start with the Commerce clause. I don't have time for "philosophy" debates with people like you because I could never win - the philosophy can never be wrong - only reality can be wrong - if the levees break it must have been because we didn't follow the constitution closely enough, right - that is the only possible reason.
Corrine McDermid did the impossible here - she made a statement most of us can agree with, and she should be proud of that. Your emotional involvement in the tea party movement tells you that it couldn't possibly be racially motivated, and all we have to do is follow everything the Constitution says (or even just what we think it says) to the letter and everything will be perfect. Unfortunately, the facts say otherwise. I think you should start a new thread if you want to continue your debate about how the tea party philosophy cannot be wrong and is perfect for America. That discussion has played out here.Mar 6
Reading your stuff, I am convinced that that you don't even know what the Constitution is about - except perhaps, like most tea party people, at a comic book level. Go back and re-read it. Start with the Commerce clause. I don't have time for "philosophy" debates with people like you because I could never win - the philosophy can never be wrong - only reality can be wrong - if the levees break it must have been because we didn't follow the constitution closely enough, right - that is the only possible reason.
Corrine McDermid did the impossible here - she made a statement most of us can agree with, and she should be proud of that. Your emotional involvement in the tea party movement tells you that it couldn't possibly be racially motivated, and all we have to do is follow everything the Constitution says (or even just what we think it says) to the letter and everything will be perfect. Unfortunately, the facts say otherwise. I think you should start a new thread if you want to continue your debate about how the tea party philosophy cannot be wrong and is perfect for America. That discussion has played out here.Mar 6
Robert Lee - @Robert Gordon - What part of 'I have absolutely no involvement in the Tea Party' don't you understand? I have never been on a march. Haven't subscribed to any mail lists. I don't agree with many of the national Tea Party figures, i.e. Sarah Palen, Glenn Beck, Hannity, etc Nothing. I have nothing to do with the Tea Party. I simply came to their defense when their cause was trivialized as racist.
We disagree on the role the federal government should play in our lives. Let us agree to disagree. This should not have gotten personal.Mar 6
We disagree on the role the federal government should play in our lives. Let us agree to disagree. This should not have gotten personal.Mar 6
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Like▼I have heard this one a bunch of times, but now I know the artist, and it is Freeeee!!!! What a great "been a hellofa day, but I heading down the road to home" rockin' road song, melodic, but with a great driving crunch... Damn, I love this station... hahahaha
Citay - Careful With That Hat - KEXP Song of the Day
Citay - "Careful With That Hat" from the 2010 album Dream Get Together on Dead Oceans.Expand this post »
Citay - Careful With That Hat - KEXP Song of the Day
Citay - "Careful With That Hat" from the 2010 album Dream Get Together on Dead Oceans.Expand this post »
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Like▼Alrighty then, the acid test. Can I link a shared Google docs mp3 in a public buzz? Will it embed in a player? Tune in tomorrow and we will see... Well, it was just a link to the public shared page where you could download it. Crud, I want to play from a gdoc hosted mp3... ;-]
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Like▼Test posting of a publicly hosted free podcast mp3
kexp.org "song of the day" rss feed - The Soft Pack - Answer To Yourself
kexp.org "song of the day" rss feed - The Soft Pack - Answer To Yourself
Steve Pirk - I cannot believe this worked - thank you to the crew on Linda Lawrey's thread. Saved the free mp3 from the rss feed to my public dropbox shared folder, created a public link and made it a link in a buzz post. Pretty slick... ;-] --egrepMar 3
6 more comments
Linda Lawrey - It worked. :) I can hear it.Mar 3
Stuyvesant Parker - Hey! It's The Strokes Version 2.2!Mar 3
Robert Lee - Greate job Linda and Crew!Mar 3
Jody Swaney - sweet!Mar 3
MoOzIqU U - yup - it totally works and now i have to know how :DMar 3
Gavin Edwards - Me too! This is awesome! Buzz could be the next "cooler" youTube!Mar 4
Steve Pirk - Let me do up an article on how I posted this mp3 outside of Google Reader.Mar 4
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Like▼One of my favorite "get the morning going" crank it songs.
The Soft Pack - Answer To Yourself - KEXP Song of the Day
The Soft Pack - "Answer To Yourself" from the self-titled 2010 album on Kemado.Expand this post »
The Soft Pack - Answer To Yourself - KEXP Song of the Day
The Soft Pack - "Answer To Yourself" from the self-titled 2010 album on Kemado.Expand this post »
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Like▼Official Google Blog: Google welcomes Picnik
This is way too cool. I always wondered why Google had not moved forward as much as I wanted on Picasa, especially on Linux. I have used some online web based editors and many offer more features than...Expand this post »
This is way too cool. I always wondered why Google had not moved forward as much as I wanted on Picasa, especially on Linux. I have used some online web based editors and many offer more features than...Expand this post »
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Like▼I am seeing more and more Doctors in this area being open to shared medical information. I always ask when checking in for a first visit "anyone here have gmail?". Very cool when the Doctor or a nurse looks at you and smiles. baby steps... ;-]
Update from the Google Health Team - Official Google Blog
Update from the Google Health Team - Official Google Blog
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Like▼NOAA Pacific Tsunami Warning Center http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/ good place for up to the minute info
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Like▼Multi-factor Authentication and the Cloud - ReadWriteCloud
Great section on temporary password recovery typically being an inbox. Bottom line, make sure your passwords for all your major accounts differ from each other...
If they are the same, having one account compromised means you are owned. Completely. [egrep quickly does inventory to make sure his own password usage complies ;-]
Multi-factor Authentication and the Cloud - ReadWriteCloud
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Like▼NOAA Pacific Tsunami Warning Center
NOAA Pacific Tsunami Warning Center
For those that would like a great site to check tsunami status as updates are posted, try this site. Looks like all warnings have been cancelled or the events have passed.
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Like▼RT @Zapote21: Wife's Nexus rooted, Amon Ra 1.6.2 flashed. Before first boot too...LOL
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Like▼RT @shannynmoore: RT @TheDude0415: American Taliban is Alive and Well! Utah makes Miscarriage a Criminal Offense http://is.gd/9fxDS
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Like▼Official Google Blog: A meeting of the minds: Google's 2010 EMEA Faculty Summit
Official Google Blog: A meeting of the minds: Google's 2010 EMEA Faculty Summit
See, now that's the way to help with education... create events like this populated by the best and working with one goal in mind... hat tip -> Google and Open Source...
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Like▼Whoot! location sensitive search results... a shiny new toy to play with... ;-]
Official Google Blog: Refine your searches by location - googleblog.blogspot.com
Official Google Blog: Refine your searches by location - googleblog.blogspot.
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Like▼Well, this looks promising... Gads knows with all the CromiumOS beta testing I have been doing and other toys, the house is chock full of ipv6 hardware, and I have lots of domain names I can address things to... A mobile web site on my ipv6 3g connected netbook maybe? Now, if Google comes through on the Fiber beta test request... this could be cool... ;-]
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Dear Comcast Customer,
Thank you for...Expand this post »
Jack Villarreal - Very nice.Feb 26
Alice Dale Gray - Sounds like you're one happy camper.Feb 27
Steve Pirk - @ Alice - I will be happy if they pick me... Kind of hoping I might be able to squeeze a bit more bandwidth out of Comcast as the same time ;-]Feb 27
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