can otocinclus hybridise?

[Richard B]

I saw a tank full of oto's yesterday at a lfs - nothing unusual about that.

The black horizontal stripe however, was on most specimens, broken into smaller regular blocks of black colour, (similar to O.cocoma but they clearly weren't)

My question is this - could regional variation account for this or could mass commercial breeding produce hybrids? I only mention hybrids because i also saw some syno "multipunctata" which were the most convincing hybrids i've ever seen (i'll post separately about these). I may know extremely little about loricariids but i do know something about synos & there were quite a few hybrid genera/species seen at the store & they weren't cheap.

Are otos w/c or commercially bred for the trade? I suppose this is a cautionary post that something may be occuring out there in the big bad world.

[Mike_Noren]

I wouldn't be surprised if species of Otocinclus can hybridize, but in all probability what you saw was a species which simply look like that; there are many "blotchy" Otocinclus, e.g.

Otocinclus flexilis

, and there are "blotchy" species of Parotocinclus and Hisonotus which are sometimes sold under then name "Otocinclus".

Otos are, AFAIK, always wild-caught, never captive-bred.

[jeff@zina.com]

My LFS, when they have otos, will have different species all labeled as otocinclus. Not in the same batch, but there seem to be different species from shipment to shipment. They tell me it's what their distributor can get from it's suppliers that determines what is shipped, and the distributor labels them all the same.

Jeff

[Richard B]

I wouldn't be surprised if species of Otocinclus can hybridize, but in all probability what you saw was a species which simply look like that; there are many "blotchy" Otocinclus, e.g.

Otocinclus flexilis

, and there are "blotchy" species of Parotocinclus and Hisonotus which are sometimes sold under then name "Otocinclus".

These were (as a simple description)

Otocinclus vittatus

but the black stripe was broken into several 'blocks' with a pale block of equal-ish size between each black block of colour - they cetainly weren't hisonotus or parotocinclus & not a flexilis-type - hence the question of regional variation of a species (or hybridisation).

Otos are, AFAIK, always wild-caught, never captive-bred.

- useful to know - cheers

[nvcichlids]

hmmm... any chance for a trip back for some pictures? Would be interesting to see these. Possible undescribed sp?

[apistomaster]

Hi Richard,

I have seen YouTube videos of collectors bringing in one net of what looked like 10,000 Otocinclus in one haul. It is still hard to believe how many that were possible to catch at a time. They live in enormous schools and most likely are one of those fish which breeds en masse. They are very abundant hence their low prices except some rarer species like Otocinclus cocama. None of those sold in the shops are captive bred and most captive breeding reports are of accidental or incidental nature. Several accounts cited their Otocinclus spawned when the Corydoras present were also spawning. It may be that pheromones released during the Corydoras spawning were a contributing factor?
I think one of the reasons why we don't spawn Otocinclus more often in captivity is that few have tried to keep them in schools of hundreds in large sized species tanks and run them through the usual tricks of the trade like simulating dry and wet seasons. It's possible, as it it with many mass schooling fish species, that some migration to specific spawning grounds are a part of their life cycle? I have been thinking about the various possible triggers for attempting to breed a related species.
The various Otocinclus species which are most commonly imported are very similar in appearance and fisherman collecting over a wider range bring them into the major exporters who then mix them altogether. So it is no wonder that under closer scrutiny in a fish store tank we finally see there are slightly different looking species all being sold as just one.

I have about 15 Parotocinclus cf. epplyei which are a species I hope to breed some day. I do not think i have nearly enough of them to get them in the mood. The females are only 1 inch SL and the males are about 2/3 as large as the females. They cost about the same as Otocinclus cocacma but I plan to acquire about 30 more when I get another chance with the hopes that will be a sufficiently large group to get them to act more like they are in a more natural setting and hopefully spawn. I have seen some behaviors which are similar to known Otocinclus and Corydoras pre-spawn behaviors. Namely, the males maneuvering to get into the "TEE" shape formation at the females' noses. I just have a hunch it takes a larger group to get them to complete their life cycle.

[Shane]

The various Otocinclus species which are most commonly imported are very similar in appearance and fisherman collecting over a wider range bring them into the major exporters who then mix them altogether.

This is what I have seen first hand in Colombia. Otos from llanos shipments just mixed in with shipments from the Amazon.
Exporters have their own form of taxonomy, like priced fish = like priced fish. I can not remember the amount of times I tried to point out the differences between various Farlowella spp from the llanos or even the multiple genera "lumped' together in Orinoco shipments of either "stripped" plecos or "spotted" plecos.
Some further sorting goes on at importers when they realize that the "rare" spotted or stripped pleco might have more value. However, no one will sort 1 cent apiece Otos.
-Shane

[Mike_Noren]

These were (as a simple description)

Otocinclus vittatus

but the black stripe was broken into several 'blocks' with a pale block of equal-ish size between each black block of colour

Poor quality or scared O. cocama can look much like you describe: http://www.atlantide-france.com/images/ ... -zebre.jpg

There are also species from other genera which fit that general description (I don't mean to be patronizing here, I just don't know your level of familiarity with the group) such as some Nannoptopoma.

However, it is perfectly possible it is a geographical variant or an undescribed species, there's plenty of both. A photo would be interesting.

[nvcichlids]

You know Mike, I was thinking the same thing about the stressed cocama. Most of the ones I have seen as of lately in fish stores are extremely stressed, almost white with little or no blotching (which is why I have yet to purchase any), but when looking at that picture in the link, i can see where you are coming from on this.