Lycoperdon perlatum on wood?

[Vermonter]

Most sources say Lycoperdon perlatum occurs on the ground period. However, at least one source (https://www.messiah.edu/Oakes/fungi_on_wood/puffball%20and%20cushion/species%20pages/Lycoperdon%20perlatum.htm) says it can occur on well-decayed wood--and I believe it, because I found a number of specimens today that really look like L. perlatum to me, and were on decayed wood.  I have seen people identify puffballs that look like this as L. pyriforme because they were on wood, however, specimens I have found that I believe to be L. pyriforme have been browner and smoother--if they had spines at all, they were smaller and softer-looking.  I'm wondering if there are any other species besides the two I've mentioned that these could be.  Hartford, Vermont

[Dave W]

I've had discussions about whether or not L. perlatum sometimes occurs on wood. I have been told that it does not. But I believe I have found examples. There are microscopic differences between L. perlatum and L. pyriform, including spore ornamentation. The former has spores that are finely warted, and the latter smooth spores. This has become a bit of a point of emphasis for me. I'm hoping to bring home some mature/sporulating L. perlatum to see if my scope is good enough to see the warts. If I can see the warts, then I can hope to possibly ID L. perlatum growing on wood. 

The ones seen in this thread look like perlatum to me... except for the third photo down. The spines are really thick/prominent on this one. Maybe it's just the closeup view --or maybe it's just a very young one-- but I think this one may be a species other than either perlatum or pyriform. 

[Vermonter]

Photos 2-5 are all from different parts of the same stump--possibly hemlock, as it was adjacent to a standing hemlock.  The third photo you mention probably is one of the a younger ones, and I believe is a close-up of one in the second photo.  The first photo is from a recumbent piece of rotten wood at a different site in the same general vicinity.  If these are indeed L. perlatum, I'm finding it strange that there is such a consensus (aside from the messiah.edu description) that it only occurs terrestrially.  It's clear that these specimens I found were not just near the wood--they were inhabiting it, and not extending onto nearby ground.  I was focusing mostly on getting close-ups, but here are two additional, slightly wider views of the two locations.

[Dave W]

IMO, L. perlatum does occur on well-decayed wood that lies flat on the ground. I aim to support this claim with some collections and microscopy. If my scope fails to display the very small warts on the perlatum spores, then I'll take a sample to the college where I work and view through a better scope. Perhaps I'll end up finding out that my hypothesis is likely incorrect? But, I don't think so.  Walt Sturgeon --one of the most notable identifier of NA mushrooms east of the Rockies-- agrees with my contention.

IMO, large logs with surface elevated well above the forest floor are unlikely to serve as habitat for L. perlatum, and fruitngs in such habitat are likely L. pyriform (or perhaps another species). It is not uncommon for the mycelium of any of a variety of typically terrestrial mushrooms to crawl up onto wood lying on the ground and produce mushrooms on the wood.

[Vermonter]

That's interesting that Walt Sturgeon has agreed--I have the little book he co-authored, Mushrooms of the Northeast (2016), and it states that L. perlatum "grows from the ground" with the words in (green) boldface indicating a key identification feature.

Interestingly all the specimens I saw with this appearance yesterday were on wood--and plentiful on that wood, with none on the surrounding ground.  I was thinking this indicated that the species preferred wood as a substrate, but perhaps it is as you say--a terrestrial species crawling up to produce mushrooms--perhaps an adaptive measure to elevate the fruiting bodies for improved spore dispersal.

I also wonder if this could be a separate unnamed species, macroscopically similar to L. perlatum but wood-inhabiting. 

If you learn anything from microscopic examination, I would be very interested to know.  It sounds like you'll have material to work with, but should you need any more, I'd be happy to contribute from these sites if possible.

[clamp connection]

Hmmm, I collected what I assumed to be perlatum yesterday in WI, on dead down wood much like the pictures. I don't have time or desire to look at the spore ornamentation though so I'm just going to eat them. 😀

[Vermonter]

Dave W--I went out and located the sites again today.  I had mis-remembered--there were actually 3 spots--2 different stumps.  Photos 2&3 of the OP are the second spot, and 4&5 the third.  I looked closely around the areas, and found a number of smaller puffballs growing terrestrially that I hadn't noticed yesterday.  That seems like strong support for your idea of a terrestrial fungus that crawls readily up on wood.  The fact that the ones on wood seem to have had a head start made me think that wood might be a slightly more favorable habitat for producing mushrooms--but now I'm thinking the different fruiting times resulting from multiple environments could be adaptive--allowing for a longer period of spore release.

19 hours ago, clamp connection said:

Hmmm, I collected what I assumed to be perlatum yesterday in WI, on dead down wood much like the pictures. I don't have time or desire to look at the spore ornamentation though so I'm just going to eat them. 😀

clamp connection--had you read that L. perlatum does not occur on wood, or did you assume it was normal?

[clamp connection]

I've never paid that close attention to their habitat requirements. If i hadn't just returned from picking them I probably wouldn't have remembered they were on (very decayed) wood.

[Dave W]

IMO, the puffballs in the photos seen throughout this discussion look more like L. perlatum than L. pyriforme. However, it may be that pyriforme has a more variable appearance than I believe. I hope to gain some insight into this by viewing spores (possibly with a better scope than I have at home).